The Vice Chancellor of Makerere University Professor Sentamu Ddumba has threatened to sue the Executive Director of the Makerere Institute of Social Research (MISR) Prof Mahmood Mamdani for defamation.

Recently, the media quoted Prof Mamdani as saying that the VC had solicited for a chunk of donor funds meant for MISR for his personal gratification and, according to Ddumba, if the reports are found to be true, he will take Mamdani to court.

“I am told he said that there is an arrangement that I told him that if you can go and mobilize funds for the institute (MISR) we can strike a deal, whatever you bring, a portion can be for you; alleging that was the suggestion I made and I saw that on the news that I asked for the money. But I have not got a recording, I doubt Prof .Mamdani said that, I am looking for the recording. And if Mamdani said that, for sure, I am going to Court,” Prof Ddumba told The EagleOnline in an interview.

However, according to Ddumba, he will first seek for a negotiated resolution of the matter before taking further action.

“I am going to first of all ask him to withdraw the statement, make an apology to me, if he doesn’t do so, that is defamation of the highest order, I have never done that, but I am doubting,” he added.

INTERVIEW

Of recent Makerere University has been in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons, pitting a triumvirate of outstanding dons: the VC Prof Ddumba Sentamu, the Makerere Institute of Social Research (MISR) Executive Director Prof Mahmood Mamdani and MISR Senior Researcher Dr Stella Nyanzi, against each other. Consequently, the EagleOnline’s reporter Richard Wanambwa sounded out the university Vice Chancellor Prof Sentamu Ddumba. Excerpts below.

What are the most pressing challenges Makerere University faces?

The University faces many problems but at the moment; strikes are many and there are also many internal and external problems here. These days anything you do strike, strike and then these children and their human rights; they want to be consulted on each and everything and I agree we should consult them and we do actually consult them but then they claim we haven’t consulted them. For instance the tuition policy; the policy has been known ever since the time of Prof Livingstone Luboobi but nobody was implementing it and now I am implementing it but some people are opposed to it.

So the issue is implementation but then the students come in and start complaining that they haven’t been consulted, which isn’t true at all. I think the problem is that these students (guild leadership) are in office for one academic year and they don’t do a proper handover, so whoever comes starts on the same point: tuition policy, and yet this has been going on for a very long time.

So how do you intend to implement the policy without affecting the parents/students, while at the same time enabling the university to continue running?

According to the policy you pay all the money (tuition) on the first day, but we understand the situation, so we say if you can’t manage, pay 60 per cent in the 6^th week and then pay the rest in the 10^th week. However, the students and those others opposed (to the policy) told us that the 10^th week is so near and so they don’t like even the 60 per cent.

Then they said we are requesting you (University management) to extend to the 12^th week, and we did that. But even after doing it, they continued striking, and calling for the scrapping of the policy. They went to the government but the university is insisting on implementing the policy and so parents/students should know that with tuition paid on time, we will have no problems.

Nevertheless, these students use external forces and it is partly why we are having this problem. Like now we have been talking about scrapping off some programmes which is a welcome idea; there are so many programs at Makerere and the University Council and Senate thought it wise to merge some of the programmes here but then at the same time also the president also advised.

And so we are not doing this because the President Museveni was directing us; the president never directed us at all, he just advised us but it was also in our minds that as Makerere we should be doing that and then we try to revise our programmes.

What happens to continuing students?

There is no problem with continuing students, what we are doing now is going to take place in next academic year 2017; this coming intake we are admitting but 2017 we will not. So, we are giving them enough time and in any case the programmes that I did at my undergraduate are no longer there. It’s all over the world by the way; universities do revise their programmes, to see what is going on. And what we are teaching, is it in line with the needs of the country, global needs?

Like yesterday, I saw students talking about witchcraft and so on, I mean what type of people do we have here. In Makerere we don’t teach witchcraft, those things are coming from home and so we need to do something about our families.

Does government pay on time for government sponsored students or it is the reason the university is ever broke?

By the way we don’t demand a lot of money from government though we need money to run the university. But for government sponsored students, the government pays us the money on time.

There are different groups; group one is what we call government sponsored students, then there is what we call State House, that one at times delays, but it is true they pay; it delays for maybe one month but we are assured of that money. Then there is the third one, the loan scheme, the money comes but again it delays a bit but this time, we are serious with them (students) we need the money on time.

Let me also first make a comment on the fees: The fees Makerere is charging are too low, they are too low compared to other countries in the region.  We also understand the economic situation might not be favorable for most of us but the fees are too low.

Apart from fees, what other avenues do you have to generate income for running of the university?

Now regarding your question, do we have other sources of revenue? Yes, but what we did when I came into office is long term plans; I can’t talk about quick money, we are not in business, we are not supposed to do that and that’s not our core business, but we have land, much of our core effort now is focusing on land, real estate and construction of apartments in Makindye.

Have you started construction?

Not yet, because this is long term and this is not private, this is government; I mean how long does it take to construct Karuma?

It  starts with planning: it’s a long process, we don’t have the money, we have to look for the partners and how do you start constructing apartments without a law? A law of public private partnership (PPP) has just come and we must work within the law. That said, we have too many plans but then we are constrained because the ownership is not private, its government and this is a public institution so whatever we suggest here, even borrowing money: it’s not easy to borrow money from the banks, we would be doing that, but the Ministry of Education must agree to that first.

Secondly, there are constraints and unless the government changes policies it is hard but now that is what we are doing we are setting up a company, Makerere Holding Company, which is chaired by Mr Charles Mbiire. The company has plans for the construction of a hotel here to replace the current guest house and it’s going to be a five star hotel. We also have plans for setting up apartments and another hotel at Kololo; we have one for Makindye and also for Katalemwa as well as Kabanyoro, there is too much land there and part of it can be for these developments.

Talking about land, why doesn’t the university develop its land in Kibaale and Soroti?

I think things have changed now because we don’t have money but we are going to use our forestry people here to start planting trees. As we can’t get money, now we are focusing on planting trees.

Single out one achievement at Makerere you are proud of as Prof Ddumba

I must say one of them is the ranking of Makerere; Makerere University used to be (placed) above 10, now we are below 10, and we are number three in terms of research output and publication. We have people who can write here; yes there are some challenges but if you rank us on research we are number three in Africa which was not the case before and I am proud of that one and I would like to thank my staff for doing a very good job.

I would also like to thank the government of Uganda because they give us money to do research, there is what they call presidential initiative money and some of this money is coming to some of the colleges and they are using that money to do research. The others are the development partners like SIDA and TIDA, they have given us substantial amounts of money` to undertake research.

The second point is before I came in, Makerere University was like a market place in terms of kiosks; they were everywhere and I know some are trying to come back again, but if you may recall that right from Social Sciences there were all kiosks and we said ‘no this can’t continue’ but of course some people opposed that. So, I think the cleanliness and order has improved.

What do say about your previous predecessor? 

Prof. Venansius Baryamureeba, when he came in, he tried to introduce his concept of the colleges system, but it was on table already. However, it is him who implemented it. Of course there are some challenges with the colleges system but it was a good idea. But what I am trying to do and I told everybody when I came in, is that lets try to promote the college system, let’s see the challenges and try to overcome them together, but up to now there are still challenges and we are going to setup a review, a committee to review the colleges system.

What is hindering the university from further development?

There is one or maybe two issue: the issues of inadequate funding. As earlier said we are now having a budget of Shs200 billion, which is far much below our requirement; our requirement should be Shs400 billion a year, but we are surviving on only Shs200 billion, and that is money from the government and money from the tuition here. The tuition money is declining because the numbers have gone down and this is what we want to do because the classes where overcrowded. So we said, lets reduce on these numbers but reducing the numbers is also reducing on income. And this is a biggest challenge, because if you look at our buildings, they are in poor shape, if you go to the halls of residence, it is terrible.

The other challenge is this impunity: staff are doing whatever they are doing, you can’t touch them and you talk about the students, the way they are behaving is wanting. Sincerely it has gone out of control, impunity is too much.

What is the most expensive under graduate programme?

I wouldn’t say off hand but it must be in the college of sciences, medicine or science related programme actually. On average they pay Shs3 million per year, not per semester, that’s small money. But I mean that alone, medicine should be Shs15 million per year and that is our unit cost.  Humanities should be charged Shs6 million per year as tuition. Science related programmes should be increased up to Shs15 million, but then once you do that, you see backlash and by the way internationally that’s nothing.

Why are you using Dr Stella Nyanzi to fight Prof Mahmood Mamdani?

No, I am above that. That I am using Dr Nyanzi, I am above those personal wars.  We have we set up a committee, Nyanzi is not my sister, Nyanzi is not my niece, Dr Nyanzi is my relative. I have a family, she is not part of that family, not so much extended, she is within the family but that is not a point at all, Nyanzi came to this university in 2011. I became the Vice Chancellor in 2012, I was still down at College Business and Management Science, Nyanzi applied for a job, Nyanzi became successful, was given a job on merit, nothing else and she has been down there, she does whatever she is doing there, I am not interfering, now I have heard that I am using Nyanzi to fight Mamdani.  That is too cheap, that is cheap popularity, and I am above that.

And at the same time they are saying that Nyanzi has been complaining to management, if indeed Nyanzi is my relative, which is true, but again if I were to be on her side, how come for these six years they are saying she has been complaining to management and I have not been assisting her yet she is my relative?

Secondly, Prof Mamdani has never made an official complaint to the Vice Chancellor but he has made those complaints because there is a reporting channel on who do you report to; Prof. Mamdani reports to the Principal of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, he doesn’t report to me, it is the principle of CHUSS who reports to me, so you see that channel, the reporting channel. It is only twice that I have talked to Prof Mamdani; I talked to Mamdani when we were talking about more staff and I said let the directorate of human resource deal with the problem. On another occasion, he called me to officiate at a certain function and I went there.

I think Mamdani is unfair to the Vice Chancellor I must emphasize, and there is a good working relationship between the VC and Prof Mamdani. There is no bad relationship at all, and I also want to assure you that I condemn in the strongest terms possible, the acts of undressing in public: definitely that was very wrong of Stella Nyanzi. But I must say I am not using Dr. Nyanzi at all, that’s unfair and I would like to talk much about this because if Prof Mamdani had a problem with management there are channels in this university and if management is not responding then you can got to Chairman of University Council or even the Chancellor, although Chancellor is not involved in the running of the university.

As for Dr  Nyanzi, that was an extreme and if  management had failed to deal with the problem then she could have gone to the chairman of University Council or  other organs than doing that, so both of them are wrong. And, why are you going to the press? That’s why we issued a statement, not to use the press anymore.

We have a communication policy here: the VC is the Spokesman of the university and we have the public relations officer but not everybody should be talking about issues of Makerere.  It is different if she was talking about research, that’s fine, but on issues about the university it’s the VC and the public relations officer or anybody whom the VC puts forward and of course the chairman of the University Council is entitled to speak.

You recently advertised for the job of Director of MISR and yet Mamdani is still around, isn’t this part of the fights?

Your retirement is at 60 years, beyond that, you can be given a contract; I am 60 and on contract. As a professor, you can go up to the age limit of 70 years and that’s how it is.  I do appreciate the services of Mamdani, I thank him and please if you are reporting, that has to be there, I thank Mamdani for the contribution.

I am told he said that there is an arrangement that I told him that if you can go and mobilize funds for the institute (MISR) we can strike a deal, whatever you bring, a portion can be for you. There is an allegation that that was the suggestion I made and I saw that on the news that I asked for the money. But I have not got a recording; but I doubt Prof Mamdani said that, I am looking for the recording. And if Mamdani said that, for sure, I am going to court.

However, I am going to first of all ask him to withdraw the statement, make an apology to me, if he doesn’t do so, that is defamation of the highest order. I have never done that, but I am doubting.

On the issue of Dr Nyanzi, I heard that the reason was because Mamdani told them to undertake and start teaching a programme but their appointment letters were stating research and not teaching. This coming Monday, even before this saga started the item was on the agenda of the University Management, to discuss this issue of Stella Nyanzi.

Could the war between Mamdani and you be about money?

Mamdani earning more money than me, I don’t know but even if he earns more money than me, I have not been complaining about that one and I am just hearing that for the first time.

In fact these are just independent institutes within our university and we are not objecting to anything. How MISR is being run, that’s why we have set up a committee to see what’s going on. That’s what I am calling impunity, who is Mamdani, if you say Nyanzi has been insubordinate to Mamdani, what about him to me? What do you call that? That’s insubordination.

That he will not listen to me and that the committee has to come from outside, who is he to say such a statement? I am surprised that he is behaving that way, I know the staff (MISR) they are threatening to petition, I have not seen it yet and that is sectarianism, that is too cheap.

The recent arrest of a lecturer after allegedly raping a first year student is a revelation that sex for marks exists at Makerere. What do you have to say?

These are rumors, but they are from students, students say a lot. Exchange of marks for sex, whenever I meet students, they say that and I say, please, I need the proof and none of them has ever come to me; none of them has ever said that these are the people. That’s why I like this girl who came to me, she is a hero to me: she came here and she told me, with her evidence, full of blood and so on, I got shocked, the fellow insisted that she was raped we took the matter to the police of course.

So, the rumors are there, but nobody comes in the open to say something. By the way, this girl it was not for marks as such because this gentleman is not teaching this girl: the girl is in first year so it was something else not for marks.

Nevertheless, the rumors are there and we encourage students to come to us to report these matters, we need to clean up but of course whether they are rumors or not it is tainting the image of the university and we seriously condemn that act

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